Assault Vehicle fluff

"Its so fluffy I'm gonna die"
-Roboute Guilliman

Assault Vehicle fluff

So still havent had a game in a while, but did manage to catch up with some of my old warhammer buddies to have some warhammer related chats including whether or not new space wolves are just marines with +1 strength on their power weapons for 5 extra points, and whether or not grey knights moving to a more shootier army is a refreshing change or not. Personally I think heavy 6 bolters with force are amazing, even with AP - due to their ability to just slaughter Greater Daemons (who wont always roll 3+) and Tyrannid monsters after getting only a single wound. Also Heavy flamers which get +1 strength for free is nice.

Anyway another comment that came up was the landraider as the only assault transport for chaos marines. Which is always a favourite amongst heretics, and never gets old by the way, and how terminators can charge from the side doors of a LR yet cultists cant charge from a rhino.

Well we put it down to this, imagine that your rhino is built like your mothers Volkswagen. You squeeze in the backseat and when you reach your destination you all pile out all stiff and unable to do much as you help the middle person out of that dreaded middle seat. The thing is even if you were to ride in a Limo, you are still piling out one at a time, from seated and really its still a pain in the ass. Heck even the bat-mobile woulnt be an assault vehicle according to these rules.

Well I can imagine that a landraider is more like the back of a van, or even a bus, where you are already standing before you disembark. Its easier to charge off a bus that it would be to charge out of a car. Regardless on the number of lascannons on said bus.

Now open topped would be like a convertable. You can just leap out the side, over the boot, across the bonnet if you have to. And although you are sitting while it moves, you are standing before you disembark. Which is why these vehicles allow charging in the same turn as you disembark and a rhino makes you help your buddy out of the middle seatbelt which doesnt unclick unless you jiggle it at the perfect angle.

If you dont believe me, next time you are in the car, try leaping out of it and jumping into the fray. Make sure your friend videos it too, so you can have a nice youtube clip of you either smashing your head on the ceiling of the car, or getting your foot caught in the seat belt and doing an epic faceplant while your sister unbuckles your baby brothers carseat, before you pick up your teeth for that assault phase.

Though it would be nice to have some form of dukes of hazard units who could charge out of non assault transports, maybe if you go to the effort of modeling Kharn the Betrayer into Bo Duke your opponent may be a little more lenient.  

Trapped in the eye of terror

"And he watching us all through the eye... of terror!"

Trapped in the eye of terror

Just in case you were worried (I dont think you were, you probably didnt even know I was gone) I am not dead, I am just trapped in the eye of terror. Actually, thats not entirely true, what really happened was my play group moved from tuesday nights to saturday nights. Which apparently worked out best for everyone, except me. So I havent had any games of late and thus have not had any new revelations of what to do with chaos in 7th ed. I also wanted to include something about the new space wolves, and how they can upgrade practically any power weapon to +1 Strength for 5 points.

They did lose their stupid psychic defense, only grants Adamantium Will, but do get a dread with a storm shield.

Overall it looks like a decent book, but only time will tell. Personally Im looking forward to the new nurgle stand alone book which has been rumoured.

Until then I have to go before my Boss catched me:!

Giving your opponent turn 1

Heads I win, tails you lose.

Giving your opponent turn 1

Now most of us around here that remember 5th edition remember that turn 1 wasnt necessarily the game changer that most of us have seen since 6th ed. Its not really a rules change, or even a codex change, as much as a change in the meta. See 6th edition and to some extend 7th, the idea was the best defense was a strong offence, and spent the entire game trying to wipe the opponent off the board with glass cannon units rather than tough units that could hold an objective for a few turns. With the new maelstrom mission, tougher units are slowly making a come back. But, if your opponent is trying to destroy you as quickly as possible, why would you give them the first turn?

Well it all depends on army composition. Sometimes its really wise to go second.

I know most of you will scoff, remember that time that the guys Eldar army took 1/2 of yours of the board turn 1, and roll your eyes and say what would he know. But maybe you and your opponents armies were not suited for you to go second. Which also means his army is likely to be equally screwed if you went first.

If your opponent has a really long range army, going first could mean they deploy out of your range, which makes you have to advance, which gives them a free turn of shooting. Giving you 1 less game turn, and they still shoot you first. 

This is common of turtling armies, like a lot of tau builds, where they look for where you deploy and pick the opposite side. If you deploy bottom right, they deploy top left. If you spread your army across your board edge, they pick a corner and have to deal with half your army at a time as the opposite corner units spend their first few turns getting into range.

Alternatively, if you have the long range army, you can let them go first and see how they deploy and counter it. If they spread out (most players do) then just pick the corner which appears the fastest and deploy in front of it. Yes it does mean they close the gap faster, but it means their slow stuff, like their vindicators, spend turns 1-3 getting into range.

Now if you had turn 1, yes you would have an extra turn to shoot them before the vidicator got there, but! For every turn you get, your opponent also gets one. Which means if your opponent wastes their turn 1 advancing the distance you made by deploying second, you just got an extra turn at the end of the game.

I know it seems counter intuitive. But if you assume the game lasts to turn 7. Then deploying first means they shoot you for 7 turns, but you get the alpha strike. If you let them deploy first, and gain a turns worth of movement by deploying right, sure they made that up in turn 1, but now you only weather 6 turns of shooting from them. 

Now this is harder if the enemy is really mobile, in which case this tactic doesnt work as well. Unless your opponent is only semi mobile. If you read some of my previous posts, you'll see that making them split their army up and take you wave by wave makes life a lot easier for you.

If you are the shorter range army, then deploying second also helps. You wait to see how they deploy and take the shortest route. If they take the middle of their edge, follow suit, if they deploy top left corner, take bottom left. If they spread out, find their weakest point and aim for that 

Going second also helps in the mirror match. You put your antitank infront of their tanks, and your antiinfanty infront of their infantry. If they bunch in the center you can deploy in the 2 corners, with the bulk in one corner, and a unit or 2 of long range sniping units in the other. This means if they focus your main army they get shot by snipers who arent worth dedicating a portion of the army to deal with. And those snipers go a whole game without being harassed. If they spread along their edge, then you pick a corner and deploy there aim for the same corner on your opponents board edges (top left if youre bottom left) and then walk right dealing with their army in waves. 

There are plenty of other situations I will get into in the future but for now Im going to play some games!

Redundancy and Overkill II : the revenge

"So these Jedi, they can see the future, can shoot lighting from their hands, have swords
which can cut through armour. Now where have I heard that before..."
Chief Librarian Leorge Gucas

Redundancy and Overkill II : the revenge

So for those of you who read yesterdays post, you may have seen a few things that may have lead you to rethink your current list building. Some of you would have scoffed and continued to build the same way because its been winning for you. Thats fine, keep doing what you like, I dont write rules for 40k I merely suggest changes.

Now some of you would have seen the latest from BAO tournament, seen the guy who won, and regardless of whether or not you agree to him cheating or not, noticed his bike list kind of goes against what I said in the last post.

For those of you who arent aware, the guy who won, used a white scars biker list. Basically Khan leads the way with a command squad and apothecary while the bike squads (now troops) load out with dual grav guns, dual melta guns, dual plasma guns etc. Notice he doesnt bother with flamers, as the bikes pack enough anti infantry as it is. The issue is that he takes an attack bike, with a multimelta in every squad. This includes the grav-gun and plasma gun squads. Which kind of contradicts what I was saying yesterday. However multimelta, plasma and grav guns all have the same range, so at least he has this going for me, the combination of grav-gun (anti monstrous creatures) with multimeltas (anti-tank) kind of goes against the idea of making your squad do the one thing and do it right. 

Personally I dont know why he used the upgrade option to buy attack bikes rather than just buy a squad of attack bikes, but not having looked into the Space marine codex in too close of a detail, I cant really comment, but the overall reason behind this decision is almost certainly due to with the lists he knew he would be facing. BAO allows for far more super heavies than your standard 40k game, due to the amount of forgeworld "unlocked" and really you need as many multimeltas as you can to take down the potential only titans list.

Thats one of the beauties of this game, is that the current meta can make or break a list that was strong before. D weapons have really hurt those deathstar units relying on rerolling inv saves to stay alive. Super heavy vehicles have also meant that certain star units now struggle to take down a tank that doesnt die to a single antitank gun with a lucky roll.

They do die to a million glancing hits so necrons are back in the game, if not just to keep the titans in their place.

Slipping in a 10 point multimelta into a bike unit is often a good strategy to spend those few extra points to give you an out against tanks. It also works nicely on a stormraven, as your speed negates the difference in range between the lascannon and the MM. And is usable on a Land raider, due to the split fire ability thanks to the machine spirit.

Bikers also have relentless, so if youre moving about to get your other guns in range you dont snap fire the heavy weapon in the same way a lascannon in a squad of tacticals would. So yeah there are some rules and those units and weapons which break them. Does this mean I was wrong, no. Does it mean you should listen to everything you read on the internet, also no. 

My posts on tactics are designed as guides not rules. I think you should make your army with the theme of either combat or shooting, and not a bit of both. Does this mean a half shooty half combat army wont work, no, but in general mixing and matching is hindered by the rules which disallow shooting into combat. Once again certain units, like bikes or oblits, serve as multipurpose and can shoot well and then provide decent close combat back up. Most space marine HQ choices cant shoot well at all and serve purely as close combat. But when you are using one of these units, like a daemon prince, Khan, mephiston, the nightbringer (sorry the generic shard of the nightbringer c'tan or whatever) you need to have the rest of the army support that unit. Usually by pushing up hard and fast with them. And 99% of the time, you must have a unit or 2 able to help it out in close combat.

So yeah, this is not gospel and im sure you will find a list somewhere that contradicts everything I write, but I believe, for the most part at least, that these tactics are fairly sound and apply to most lists, for most games. Deal with it.

Redundancy and overkill

"Only one marine may be equipped with heavy weapons per 10 man squad. But it doesnt say how many he can take"
-Sgt Kronus debating the rules in Roboute Guilliman's codex

Redundancy and Overkill.

It seems obvious to most players out there, or at least it should, but I still see so many people making the same mistake over and over again. Taking a single weapon in a squad which makes the rest of the weapons redundant, useless, or just a waste of points.

Take your standard tactical marine squad. Each man has a boltgun (24" S4 Ap5) which is designed as a medium range anti infantry weapon. Now the guns also get better at 12" so the marines want to be mobile enough to move into the ideal range and spray bullets at some infantry. "This is not new, not some genius unnknown wisdom, its obvious" I hear you shouting down your monitor at me. Well then, if this is so damn obvious, why do you keep taking that lascannon as a heavy weapons choice?

Seriously the amount of lists I see where people will do this, is astounding. If the squad has bolt guns, then the specials/heavies you should take should compliment them in some way. Or at least have some use when being fired at the wrong target.

For example, Plasma guns have the same range, are also rapid fire and are used to beat infantry. Plasma guns works really well in marine squads. As do flamers, as despite their shorter range, they operate on the same principles of get marines up to the enemy and fire while closing the gap. A lascannon on the other hand does not help. It has twice the range of the other guns, so you really want to use this range to its advantage, it its predominately an anti-tank weapon, and is heavy. Meaning to get the bolters in range, you are moving and snap firing the cannon. Now while you may think "But Dan, now this unit can shoot both tanks and infantry" well yes it can, but you are playing for that squad, plus the heavy weapon, and suddenly a triple las-pred is cheaper, gets more shots off, and can even move and shoot fairly well.

Now this doesnt mean you should never take lascannons on marines. Devistators are welcome to take them. Havoks, go nuts! If you are playing templars and your 5 man squad can get both a multimelta, a melta and a combi melta in a 5 man squad, well then you clearly have a short range anti tank unit. If thats the case, you can build them this way. Because your points are devoted to antitank, which is what the squad will do, and the 2 bolter guys are just cannon fodder (or ablative wounds).  

The same problem I have seen with weapon load outs on dreadnoughts. 2x autocannons, great! Auto + Missile, not as good but still gets the job done. Multimelta + Lascannon, no. Lascannon + CCW, yuck. Multimelta + CCW. Better, but still not ideal. You go from being good at shooting OR combat to average at both. Yes tanks will fear you, which is possibly the only thing going for it, but you should really look more into equipping it to cover the weaknesses in your army. Not everything can be the fabled Chaos obliterator, who is good at all ranges and fills any spot in your army. Sorry guys you dont all get one of those units.

If your army is full of power armoured marines, then you dont have to worry about taking anti-light infantry. Your army is full of it already. Take some plasmas in your marine squads. Unless your army is terminator heavy, and the only reason you have any power armour is to fulfill the 2+ troops slot. In which case, consider flamers, because you might need some anti ork boy stuff. If you army is mostly cc, do you think that sniper squad is really that helpful? Sure you can pick off something at range, but all those points could be something else designed to actually achieve victory in your preferred method. If snipers are your only shooting unit, its a lot easy to ignore them and focus your assault marines. If you have more squads of assault marines, who do they focus?

Its easy to make these mistakes, as not only do GW seem to work to make you make these mistakes (by releasing devistator kits with one of each heavy weapon) but also with the mentality behind Marines (both loyal and chaotic) that they are the swiss army knives, able to combat, able to shoot etc. White dwarf battle reports also further this trend of mismatching equipment.

So please stop taking reaper autocannons in 5 man terminator squads. Please dont take lascannons in 10 man tactical squads. That one missile in your boyz squad sounds like fun as it could pop a tank or marine. But firing its loses a turn of running, which means that boys squad is slowed down a turn for a 1/3 chance to hit. On average you slow down 3 boys squads to kill a marine, or 6 squads to pen a rhino. Use those points to buy another few lootas, or tank busters. Thinks designed to kill tanks.

I know this seems counter intuitive and even seems to go against a lot of ideas behind other people on the internet, in their blogs. But this is not saying "dont take a power fist on your Raptor Champion" or "Dont take a 3 man combimelta terminator suicide squad." its saying "dont take a powerfist on your havok squad just in case they get into combat." and "dont take a Devistator squad with 2 lascannons and 2 plasma cannons" as well as "dont take Chosen with 2 flamers, 2 plasmas and a melta." Yes the melta would be nice if you came up against a tank, but it seriously hinders that squads ability to perform at the task you bought it for. Which is pouring out plasma shots. Dont take a reaper on terminators. If youre in range of the enemy with all your guns, the combi plasma would have been better. If youre not, you just spent almost 200 points on a Aegis defense turrret.

As always comments are welcome. In fact encouraged. Maybe you have had success with a single weapon before. I want to hear about it. Maybe you have a tactic you want to share. I want it! Maybe you need a tactic for a situation. I will share it, and write about it next post!

Being good at everything

Combi-weapons. 

For that turn your Obliterators are all in reserve, right?

-Chaos lord Gigantius Douchius.

Being good at everything.

Now before you think Im posting about the size of my, ego. Im actually talking about the concept of units which are considered "good at everything" and their effect on the game.

Most people reading this will know Plague Marines are good. If not from experience but from word of mouth or someones online blog. What makes them so good? Well not only are the tougher as nails, but they are able to participate (well) in both the shooting and the combat phase.

Obliterators share this trait too. Notice how both these units are some of the most commonly played units in  CSM armies? Oblits have some great shooting capabilities, can move and fire heavy weapons, and are armed with powerfists, 2 base attacks and defenses which allow them to win combats.

Now granted neither of these units can solo assault a dedicated assault unit. And generally will get shot to pieces by a dedicated shooting army. However the option to swap from a shooting unit, to a counter charge unit is amazing.

Yesterday I played my CSM against an Ork player. We played a weird scenario where our army came down in waves of 300 points. I ended victorious because my models could do what his couldnt. Act in both shooting and assault.

At first it didnt seem that obvious, especially with the lists we saw each other take. However the small amount of points that were on the board at any time really emphasized my point. When his Nobs charged in, my Oblits counter charged. When my chaos lord (on juggernaut) got into to his nobs, his Flash gitz were stuck there completely unable to assist.

This was a huge problem I was having until not too long ago, every time I took autocannon havoks. When the rest of my list was devoted to shooting (noise marines, heldrakes, oblits, etc) they performed really well and their weight of shots ended up being a problem for light vehicles and most infantry. However when I bought a Chaos Biker Lord and some spawn, I often found that I really needed something to back them up in combat. However, Havoks really cant do that.

This seems to be a huge problem for both beginners, and non competitive veterans, and their own lists (not with net lists). They try and get a balance of shooting and assault, and end up being mediocre at both. The games where I swapped those havoks for daemonettes, my army was so much stronger. Is that because daemonettes are better? Not necessarily, its because they fit the army better. If I went back to my noise marine list I think I would find the Havoks much more useful than a squad of squishy glass cannon assault unit.

Troops aside yesterdays game was practically Khorne lord on jugg with spawn and a load of oblits against Nobs on bikes, nobs on foot, flash gits and lootas. Now my opponent played his game quite well, but he couldnt deal with the fact that when he charged my lord, the obliterators counter charged, but the lootas and gitz were stuck shooting cultists and rhinos because the rest was locked in combat.

The other problem he had was such a mix of range he didnt quite know where he wanted me. Lootas want the enemy at 47" inches away. Flash gitz want them much closer, and Nobs even closer again.

For me I could quite happily pick what weapons to use at the range I was at so I had the flexibility to chose what I wanted to do. In this game I wanted to push him hard up against his deployment zone and keep him there.

So after these points we came up with an idea. It actually came from an old Tau vs Guard story, which goes Guards men have 24" range and 5+ armour, so the tau brought 30" guns that wounded on 2+ and ignored their armour. So the Guardsmen brought heavy bolters, which were 36" range, and wounded the Tau on 2+ ignoring their armour. One thing you can take from that, is that the tau could sit at the 31" line and the guard were useless, having to move into the taus range to even have a chance of firing. But with the heavy bolter, the guard put the same pressure on the tau. So basically the idea was, 48" shooting range, with units that can counter charge if they need.

Basically the list involves placing oblits and lootas at 48" away from your opponent, Now I dont know many armies which can deal that much damage at that range, so they have to move forward into salvos of more and more fire. Obliterators get deadlier the closer they get as well which is nice. And at no point do you have a unit locked in combat so far away from the rest of your army that you cant back it up. If your opponent gets off a charge and doesnt kill the unit, feel free to devote oblits to punch em.

Now Im not going to list a perfect list for you guys, im sure you can work one out using the models you have.

But for getting cheap HQ choices, a painboy for orks is fairly cheap and ususally make his points back. Sorcerers are cheap for chaos, providing support spells like invis and shrouding, where a cheap vanilla lord gives a squad fearless for 65 points total.

In conclusion, shooty units which can countercharge are great. especially if you can keep them near by each other. Also remember to keep your ranges (if shooting) or your speed (if in combat) similar so you can keep everything contributing to the battle at all times.

The olde bait'n'switch

So youre out for a weekend of hunting some Dark Angels? Better stock up on our high energy marine bait!*

*Marine bait is subject to copywright by GW, any attempts to reproduce or even use this product will result in a lawsuit.

The olde bait'n'switch

The olde bait'n'switch is not a new tactic, but it seems to be a long forgotten one, I guess mainly because you need to keep your tactics secret then when the time is right make a move that loses you friends.

Regardless the bait'n'switch or just baiting is still a very sound tactic that plays heavily on your opponents bloodlust and can turn a game for you.

Firstly, while effective, Im not talking about setting up a countercharge unit just out of line of sight, then yelling "SURPRISE ASSAULT MARINES." Because we dont have fog of war this is too hard to do.

What im talking about is sacrificing your own squads for board position rather than simply model count. Here are some ways to generate advantage from a losing position.

Imagine you are playing your brilliant blue ultramarines against a foul chaos horde. Now your 10 man vet squad was blown down to 3 men, failed ld and fell back. Now luckily for you, you auto regroup, but now are left with a problem. 3 vets wont do much. Especially as they wont get close enough to the enemy to fire enough shots to really work wonders for you right?

So most people will run them away and hide them behind a building. Maybe try and sneak them near an objective late game. While this may work sometimes, I find 9/10 times you are just wasting your time.

instead take advantage of the fact your know the enemy will want to finish them off. The just have to, its part of every warhammer players dream to board wipe the opponent and what better way than to start wiping entire units out.

So you move them to say 18" from their CSM with dual plasmas. You know you are going to die, but what will you gain? Well chances are unless the squad is 20 man strong, they will move in to rapid fire you. What does this mean for you other than a dead squad? Well it means you forced that squad to move 5-6" in a direction of your choice. This may be in range of those plasma cannon devistators or just off that objective you were hoping to secure next turn. You can also use this to clear room for deepstriking too.

Counter charging units are great, its a great tactic, one you shouldnt abandon. However its well known, easy to spot a mile away. Convincing your opponent to move their squad into range of your army with a "free kill" is harder to spot, especially if your opponent is bloodthirsty. So many times I have sacrificed a unit of cultists to draw a unit deeper into my lines and away from the support of the rest of his army. 

Use this tactic in any way you please. Move units away from supporting fire to open a charge on tau. Move the front line of guardsmen away to allow a direct line of sight to the heavy weapons squads. Put yourself in charge distance of plaguebearers so they move and are no longer providing cover for the squad behind it.

At worst, you make them waste time killing a unit now, and not prioritising your threats, rather than sweeping them later when they have run out of targets.

It all relies on one basic instinct of a warhammer player. Their insatiable lust for blood, winning games, removing whole units from the board, etc.

And lets face it, youre one of these players too.

What feels better at the end of the day?

Knowing you killed 8 men from 4 space marine squads but removed none, or annihilating three 10 man squads.

Now do the maths (8*4 > 3*10) 

I still havent got my hands on an ork codex to determine the points costs of some of the units I want to run. Mainly lootas, painboyz and sluggas. But Im sure one will find its way into my arms before long.

In the mean time, ponder the idea of baiting units to be where you want them, and tell about how it affected your game. Even if for the worst! 

Post for the post god

Its close-combat, with Tau. How could we possibly lose?

-Sgt Indrik Latios of the Grey knights

Final words

Posts for the Post god!

So our friend, who hosts our 40k games, called in sick yesterday. Worst of all, he also cancelled warhammer night! What a jerk. So no I dont have any results of the armies I wanted to try, nor do I have anything to whinge about as far as warhammer goes, so maybe I'll just have to write positive things again.

I'm still seeing a lot of negativity over the latest ork codex, most of which I think is unfair, they have a great codex. In fact I think they would do well with some daemon allies. Chaos marines could help too, as it would be nice to get a few armour saves here or there, but it just means your opponents have some actual targets to hit with their plasma weaponry, rather than waste it on boys.

If you have the models, a 10 man squads of boys are pretty amazing for their points. Comparing them to cultists and just, wow! No competition. Not to mention the options for rockets and a claw Nob. And that points cost. Well lets just say cultists leave a lot to be desired.

You can easily squeeze 60 ork boys as an ally (or even unbound) and have so many bodies and a fair amount of tough 4 bodies to throw around the board. You can use them to soak up the overwatch before your daemonettes charge, you can sit them on a home objective and forget about them for a while.You can run them forward as mobile cover, you can use their missiles to bust transports for your other units to assault. Ork boys and Chaos Daemons are really going to have fun together. I cant say if its competitive, without the proper testing, I dont forsee it to be as you still lack solid answers to a fair few things that like to see play on tournament lists. But who knows. Maybe a list of lootas, daemonettes and screamers might be the way to go? I say meh, but GW says "of course it will work, just buy the models and see for yourself."

Im lacking a copy of the latest ork codex, so Ill need to acquire one before I can write a list, but this is something I would like to look into. I have had some success in the past with autocannon havoks as allies for daemons, but I think lootas might do the job better.

Also my screamers have not yet arrived, making me lose motivation for building screamer lists. Hmmm Ill get a list for you guys tomorrow, maybe ill steal a friends copy of the ork codex.

Its Friday!

Charles was allowed to take his "heavily converted" Tzeentch Chariot

Provided he stopped talking to Nathans Fish tank.

Its friday!

I bet you expected a Rebecca Black reference here didnt you? No, damn maybe Im the ony one sad enough to think that way...

Ahem...

So ive been thinking of ways to use and abuse jink, now that its a 4+ and shrouded gives you a 2+ cover save, which means 2+ rerollable if you are a tzeentch daemon. Really we are limited to 3 units here, Lords of change (inc Fateweaver) Daemon Princes and Screamers. 

As far as Fateweaver is concerned. Most stick with the grimoire. Its much better too to have 2++ rerollable than any cover save. Which is true. But unlike a standard LoC, Fateweaver can roll shrouded, which allows him to bring a bubble of shrouding with him. You can use this to bring mobile cover or to attempt to bring back the olde fatecrusher lists. Id say go for the former, unless you swap those crushers for Screamers of tzeentch.

Lords of Change are good too. But lack an armour save, which makes it scary if your opponent drops any ignores cover on you. Also you dont have access to Telepathy, meaning youre leeching off a Daemon princes shrouded spell. So Id say meh, Id rather stat flying and giving my opponents feel no pain as they pass all their toughness tests.

So that leaves Daemon Princes and Screamers. I have already spoken in great length of the benefit of shrouded Daemon Princes in the other posts I have made regarding Nurgle princes. However, now I think its an idea to consider bringing along a bubble wrap of screamers to join the party.

What you'll need:

A psy level 3 Daemon Prince (or Belakor)

Some Screamers

Ice cubes

18 year old whiskey.

While drinking the whiskey, roll shrouding on telepathy table. Use shrouding while keeping screamers in 6" bubble of the prince. Jink. Pour another whiskey. Enjoy the 2+ rerollable cover save (I was going to say enjoy the whiskey, but who doesnt enjoy a nice strong sexy 18 year old... whiskey)

The screamers are fast enough to keep up with a daemon prince while it flies, can pseudo vector, and resilient enough to take some plasma to the face should your opponent have ignores cover plasma guns.

Screamers also deal with the daemon princes natural enemy, the vehicle, especially dreadnought equivalents.The daemon prince meanwhile has spells and a fat body to take on the threats to the screamers.

Now you can also do similar shenanigans with CSM bikers and biker sorcerers should you be low on points or not have a million Daemon Princes.

Hmmm maybe a list something like this 1850 unbound

Belakor

Tzeentch Prince (Wings, Armour, Psy 3, Lesser reward)

Tzeentch Prince (Wings, Armour, Psy 3)

Tzeentch Prince (Wings, Armour, Psy 3)

Screamers (x 5)
Screamers (x 5)
Screamers (x 5)

Chariot of Tzeentch
Chariot of Tzeentch

Chariots are there because I think they need some love after a rough 6th ed ruling made them unplayable. They now make the rider relentless, so now you can happily fire D3 lascannon shots and overwatch an ap3 flamer. Just be careful, as you are open topped, so template weapons will cause the rider to lose wounds if hit. But you should be fine.

Now one of your princes has to roll Shrouding, but if your lucky you might get 2 (+ Belakor).  If thats the case make sure they are slightly ahead of the non shrouded ones and your opponent will have to choose between shooting a really tough unit, or shooting the easier to kill one and risk having a daemon prince and screamers tear through their backline.

Not too far back, just a few inches to psych your opponent out. Also you could cast invis on the non shrouded princes too.

Im liking the idea of screamer bubble wrab with shrouding. Next time I will make a CSM/CD ally list with Nugle spawn wrapped in screamers with a shrouding sorcerer in the middle.

Sounds like the fluff will hate it, but so will your opponents.

And really, who needs friends when you win warhammer games

666 Page views!

666 page views Wooo

666 Page views!

Alright 666 views, Slaanesh would be pleased. Thank you to people who actually make me feel like my work is some what appreciated. Alright I better get back to the negativity, otherwise people might forget this is a blog about a GW product.

Ummm, what have I not complained about? Meh I cant be bothered whining, maybe just straight to a list of some description.

Im wanting to make Tzeentch princes more scary, by giving them shroud. If you cast shrouding while jinking you have a 2+ rerollable cover save! Of course its not the same as forewarning + grimoire, but it can be done with CSM and potentially at a cheaper price. Also shrouding is everyone in 6" bubble, so only 1 prince needs to successfully cast it.

I have a feeling the points will add up too quickly, which is unfortunate as I usually play smaller points games and 350 point daemon princes are a little too expensive to drop on the table for especially due to the randomness of their powers and thus randomness of their uses.

On another note, nurgle princes are still really good.

Im always tempted to try taking more lesser rewards due to the gain of potentially anti-flyer shooting attacks. However greater are just too good.

1500 points Daemons/Daemons Battle forged

Lord of change (Greater reward x2)

Nurgle Prince (Wings, armour, greater x2, lesser reward)

Nurgle Prince (Wings, armour, greater x2, lesser reward)

Nurgle Prince (Wings, armour, greater x2, lesser reward)

Daemonettes (x 18)

Daemonettes (x 18)

Nurglings (x3)

Nurglings (x3)

The princes and the LoC deal with most of the heavy lifting with the daemonettes acting as a clean up crew.

Nurglings can hold home objectives and get crazy cover with both stealth and shrouded and are very cheap for 12 wounds.

Hopeefully you can cast one of the rewards which give you a ranged weapon as wings give you skyfire, which helps take down enemy flyers and gives you the chance to pop a transport and assault the contents.

Once again jink + shrouded = 2+ save. Im thinking maybe time to make room for belakor as he also gets shrouding, but can run too. Also helps with powers and stuff, like giving shrouding to my Lord of Change, also combating wraithknights.

OK try this list then

Lord of change (Greater reward x2, Psy lvl 3)
Nurgle Prince (Wings, armour, greater x2, lesser reward)
Belakor
Nurgle Prince (Wings, armour, greater x2, lesser reward)

Daemonettes (x 10)
Daemonettes (x 10)

Daemonettes (x 10)

Nurglings (x3)

you lose a bit of your troops but you spread the wounds out a little more. 

Lastly If you want you could swap a prince for a large bunch of screamers (optional herald) and jink them, but thats a list for another time. Watch this space!

Making ones own rules

In the grim darkness of the future there is only war...
and various other rules disputes.

Making ones own rules.

I think we have all done it at some point or another, sat down and thought "Man do the 40k writers actually play 40k?" I have on more than one occation, which lead to me like a million other players, "fixing the rules" to better fit things. Ive seen players decide to stack cover and armour saves (because why cant a space marine benefit from both the ruins and his power armour) Ive seen people limit the number of warp charges a player can generate, Ive seen bans on certain unbound lists. Basically we all think we can do better than GW.

Now in some cases I would agree with you. I think it makes sense to have both cover and armour. In fact you should be able to take cover, then armour, then invunerable saves, if you consider how these would actually function in reality. However, the main thing people forget is that, your 14 point space marine, has been costed based on his abilities in the current rules. If you change the rules, some things get better and some worse (look at 6th to 7th ed for a recent example).

People saw genestealers as a good grab for money in 5th ed, but they were over costed in 6th ed due to their loss of charging from outflank. This was a single rules change that "nerfed" the unit because it stayed the same cost but got worse. Now youre probably thinking well Duh, I know what nerfing is but the truth is, is that when you change the rules you change the value for points. 

If you reintroduce fleet as "run and charge" like we had in 5th, you might not think it is too broken. It might even make genestealers more viable. However the main problem is current codex writing takes into account what fleet does in the current rules and charges a unit a number of points equal to what that ability does.

For example Daemonettes were prices down from 14 points per model to 9 points per model at the cost of an attack and the changes to fleet. If you give them the old fleet for free, well you are just handing me free points.

Space marines are 14 points because their best save is 3+ or saving 2/3 shots. If you let them take armour and cover, then you are giving them the ability to stop more shots than their points calculations allowed for. As suddenly weird things happen, like space marines in cover being more resilient than terminators, and orks just feeling really bad about everyone else but them getting a second save.

Anyway the point is homebrew rules are neat to try, but I can almost guarantee they will benefit your army in some way more than they will benefit your opponent, and you end up carelessly changing rules to make the game better only to find out all youre doing is shifting a meta.

Anyway no list as of yet, still pretty tired from last night, we played a bunch of games trying to test out a friends new rule system. Ill just make a second post for it.

Too much Ebay

To help prevent unpaid items, we restrict the number of auctions where a buyer is the highest bidder. If you're outbid on one of your auctions, or your neck grows a beard of its own, you'll be able to bid on this or other items 

Too much Ebay.

Once again I have reached the number of auctions I can be winning at any one time. I can totally understand how women can max out their credit cards in a clothing store. I might not ever use those heavy bolter havoks, but they're so cheap! Maybe I'm just compensating for the high GW price where a box of unmatching heavy weapons marines cost so much no wonder Roboute Guilliman made a restriction in the codex.

If you are selling on Ebay, please stop clicking on the "I only ship inside the states" option. I am willing to pay so much more for your items than I see you guys get, just because I pay so much at my local GW. Seriously, things like the space marines codex cost us $93 US, You could could buy them brand new, from GW, and ship them here and still make a tidy profit.

Anyway enough complaining about GWs prices, we have all felt the hurt no matter were we live. 

The reason I went on Ebay in the first place? More Daemons, Yay! Was looking for some fast attack choices to boost the armies offensive power without costing a million points or being a single (albeit indestructible) model. 

I think the fast attack choices, Fleshhounds, Seekers, Screamers and Plaguedrones, are all very solid choices for a list that wants to bring the pain on turn 2.they all move a minimum of 12" during movement, then run putting yourself in charge or move + charge distance for turn 2. Of course your opponent is not going to let this happen so easy, but luckily for you, you buy these daemons at a cost equal to their resilience. Seekers die to bolt guns, but are only 12 points each, Hounds cost a bit more, but have 2x the wounds and the extra toughness. Screamers get the better speed and the jink option (you have no guns so no problem jinking) and Plague drones are stupidly tough. Sure they cost the same as a terminator but run some maths. ( Ok ill do it)

Number of wounds required to kill a squad of 5.

	S3 AP-	S4 AP5	S5 AP4		S6 AP2	S7 AP2	S8 AP1	S10 AP2
TH/SS Termies	90	60	45		18	18	18	18
Plaguedrones	135	67.5	45		33.75	27	27	9
Nurgle Terminator	180	90	60		11.25	9	9	9

As you can see Plaguedrones take more shots to kill against both small arms fire and even AP weaponary than TH/SS terminators. The only exception is S10 weaponry. Against nurlge terminators, they lose to small arms fire, assuming they are out in the open (otherwise their 5+ becomes 3+ if they have cover) if you get some form of cover, double the number of wounds, required and they become the toughest, and fastest unit by far.

They dont have the offensive power that a terminator does. But they are twice as tough and twice as fast. And if you get them behind an ageis, they are more or less invincible. Additionally you can give them an icon for some sneaky deepstriking tactics.

I dont have a list for them as of yet,  but imagine turn one move 12" then assault move 2D6 into cover, turn 2 deepstrike bloodletters/daemonettes (who only scatter 6" now. Jump over the bloodletters and tarpit something in assault. Run bloodletters to be out of line of sight of most of their shooting things, and feel free to charge into the same squad as the plague drones without fear of overwatch.

Plus each Drone has 3 base attacks (4 on the charge) and the cheap sgt upgrade gets an AP2 weapon for +10 points or + 1S AP2 for 20, so you might actually win a combat against something too.

I think a lot of people were very disappointed with the Bloodcrusher update in 6th, but I think plague drones could be their replacement. In fact if your opponent gives night fighting turn 1, then you can have 3W T5 2+ cover save and give 4+ cover to everyone behind you.

Hmmm, Ill give you guys a list tomorrow, before my game, and we can reflect upon it on wednesday. It wont have plaguedrones in it. Not until I win these auctions!

Falcon punching a Falcon

Chain-swords are generally useless against a Daemon Prince.
Instead opt for the traditional FALCON PUNCH!!!!
-Captain Titus of the Ultramarines

Falcon punching a Falcon:

Edit: I was so caught up in what I thought was such a clever name for this post, I ended up calling wave serpents as Falcons. This has been changed, but the title is no longer relevant.

Lets face it. Eldar skimmers are damned annoying. They have good armour. They are fast. They have good guns, they can jink, they have stupid rules which stop penetrating hits being so devastating and are just overall difficult to deal with. Oh and Wave Serpents are the dedicated transport for Eldar.

Now any eldar player, who isnt paying their parents the rent they owe them, worth his salt is going to be turning up with a few of these bad boys just waiting to unleash them upon your army and completely dominate you. In fact even a brand new player who has been given an army list, but forgot to tell his parents that 30 year olds shouldnt be living in their parents basement, can bring a bunch of these and just wreck you if you are unprepared. However here are a few things to remember.

1 ) Jink is now before you roll to hit dice. Just in case your Opp tries anything after seeing that snap shot melta accidentally pens. Jink also makes them Snap Shot you back. Dont let them use full BS on you.

2 ) The serpent shield, which downgrades pens to glances on a 2+, powers down if they shoot with it. Watch which of them "fire their shield" it should be obvious as they will roll d6 to determine hits. Punish them for trying to be aggressive.

3 ) The serpent shield is directional, hit them in the rear armour = gg. Bonus, rear armour is 10.

4 ) The serpent shield, like the rest of the guns, are only strength 6.

5 ) The serpent shield attacks ignores cover but not armour. it might wreck a rhino or those cultists but even power armour is usually tough enough to weather it.

6 ) Its fast, but then loses its ability to do much else in a turn. Including dropping off its cargo. 

7) explosions are strength 4 on the inside. Most eldar are tough 3. 

8) They have only a single access point. This means if you charge it and wreck it in combat, the dudes inside either have to emergency disembark or die. They also cant jink combat attacks

9) Vector strike ignores cover. Youre running Heldrakes anyway right. Their balefire also glances on a 4 and pens on a 5+

10) they have 3 hull points. Downgrading pens to glances doesnt stop glances from killing them.

So CSM counters for them include

Nurgle obliterators 

*your increased toughness and 2+ armour 2W makes you a nightmare to kill. S8 doesnt insta-kill

*You can deep strike to get rear armour ignoring both the shield and the armour 12 front. 

*you have plenty of heavy weaponary to shoot. Even twinlinked plasmas hurt the rear armour. 

*You are S8 Ap2 in combat against rear armour 10

* All for just over 75 points a model

Chaos spawn

*Fast enough to either catch them or force them to flat out and therefore be useless for a turn.

*Heaps of attacks at S5 means you can even get a few penetrating hits through.

*Tough enough for their points to weather their shooting.

*Mark of nurgle makes them wound on 4+.

*Can be used to escort a chaos lord on a bike with a power fist.

* Have large bases which can be spread out to force emergency disembarking.

Chaos space marines with melta guns in a rhino.

* Troops choice (objective secured too)

*Cheap (120 points for the whole squad)

*Armour 11 shrugs off a fair number of their s6 shots

*Can take a melta bomb too.

* Easy enough to spam while still being some what competitive with the rest of your list

* Both rhino and Sgt can get combi meltas.

* Can maneuver to see rear armour

*Dont need to be in melta range to hit rear armour.

Plague marines

*See above

* 2 meltas in 5 man squad and still under 200 points

* still tough to remove if they blow up your transport

*You probably have a nurlge lord on a bike so they are troops. (objective secured).

* Poisoned weapons, 3 attacks on charge could potentially threaten wraithknight (unlikely)

* Fearless

Maulerfiends

*Armour 12 means have to be glances to death

*5++ against their anti armour

*Fast

*Will annihilate the tank then move to chew on the inside (provided they werent firedragons)

* Unexpected by the enemy

Forgefields

*Armour 12, 5++

*Lots of dakka

*Lots more dakka

*Strength 8 means glancing on 4+

*Glance them to death, eat the dudes who have to walk.

Chaos terminator suicide squad

*Deep striking means always seeing rear armour

*place them where you need them

*cant be killed by 90% of interceptor weapons eldar have access too.

* still a threat even after they pop combi meltas

* can take a chainfist for if you survive the initial shooting.

* look bad ass, much cooler than loyalist ones.

* Can take free power mace for s6 or axe for s5ap2 to chop it in combat.

* Just a little over 100 points

*draws fire from the rest of your army

*can have any mark of chaos and still be effective.

I have taken them down with other units, from CSM codex, and even used psychic powers to my advantage but the above are probably the easiest to integrate into your current list.

I kind of like writing tactics, I learn a lot while writing them too. Send me a message if you have tactics you would like to share/discuss/have me discuss. 

Unbound list ahoy!

Python were all secretly flying Daemon Princes.

Unbound list ahoy! 

So I thought I would put up an unbound list, what I suspect will become of the flying circus chaos daemons lists, or the like. Fateweaver will still be a thing, but I think most of his power will be to use the reroll each turn as most of your warp charges will be consumed by the Daemon princes trying to use iron arm/endurance/summon daemons powers.

Something like this 1850 points

Bloodthirster (Greater gift x2, lesser gift)

Fateweaver

Lord of change (Psy lvl 3, Greater gift, exalted gift)

Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Wings, Armour, Psy lvl 3, Greater gift)

Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Wings, Armour, Psy lvl 3, Greater gift)

Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Wings, Armour, Psy lvl 3, Greater gift)

The opening of the force organisation chart allows us to use nurgle princes without a great unclean one. While Im sure there are a bunch of people who will swear by the GUO, I dont think he has his uses in a Flying circus list.

I prefer the nurgle princes, as although the slaaneshi princes have had success in the past, I felt if you didnt get iron arm, your whips were barely tickling marines (rending is only on your combat weapons) and most flyers would die to the vector strikes, or be ignored as you smashed their infantry.

Im not sure if you will end up missing the whips. But the nurgle ones seem better for getting into combat considering the turn you have to sit around with your fingers up your bum. Jink + shrouded is very nice.

Im not sure about the thirster. Maybe he should be a second Lord of Change, but I really wanted to use my thirster model. (all my Greater Daemons and Princes are the solid metal ones).

I think the lord of change + staff is a better bet. I just dont have enough Lord of Change models. Maybe for some of you richer folks out there. I think the Thirster might have a better chance at beating grey knights, with the exceptional WS. Not sure will try and test tonight 

The day before Tuesday

The day before the day after tomorrow

The day before Tuesday

Yep its Monday again and time to throw some ideas together so I can completely ignore them when I build a list tomorrow.
I know in advance that tomorrows games will be 1500 points a side, which will either mean 750 per player if we have an odd number of people or 1500 as a 1v1. Which is nice to be doing more 1v1s again as we found too often we would have to wait for the entire of person 1s shooting before person 2 would start as neither of them wanted to overshoot a unit and neither wanted to let certain units survive. Which, I think would be good in 8th ed maybe, makes me want them to force you to declare all shooting before any rolls are made. Would make transports heaps better, as you couldnt shoot them on the turn the transport died, but with the new rules which often make the embarked unit snapfire/pinned/take strength 4 hits, really only space marines are not going to care about their rhino going poof and now they still cant charge out of it anyway. It would make sense too in some ways in that you have to command your units all at a time. None of this "Ok so dont shoot until the firewarriors have shot, and then only shoot if the rhino becomes wrecked. Only then shoot if the remaining squad numbers 6 or greater otherwise shoot the squad of scout in cover, unless the plasma cannon has scattered onto it in which case run towards the objective."

Anyway enough bitching, I have an idea for a 1500 point list that looks like Fun*

*fun is not guaranteed for either you or your opponent and is at the discretion of tzeetnch and the dice gods.

Im looking for speed once again, and while nurgle is the slowest of the 4 gods, the auto shrouded on daemon princes is good as they can fly forward turn 1, hover and jink turn 2 - granting a 2+ save against shooting and most things wont combat you. and charge turn 3.

If you go last you can jump on turn 1, jink and try for a turn 2 combat. Its not impossible and the daemon princes only come in at a bit over 200 points rather than the 350 point monstrosities you see in other lists. Granted no psy levels meaning no iron arm, but you get a much more reliable, harder to counter threat for at least 100 points less.

1500 points CSM/CD battleforged.

Nurgle Daemon Prince (Wings, Power Armour)

Cultists (x11)

Cultists (x11)

Nurgle Spawn (x5)

Heldrake 

Nurgle Obliterator (x1)

Nurgle Obliterator (x1)

Nurgle Daemon Prince (Wings, Power Armour, Greater reward)

Nurgle Daemon Prince (Wings, Power Armour, Greater reward)

Daemonettes (x10, Alluress) 

Daemonettes (x10, Alluress)

1500 on the nose. 3 Nurgle Daemon Prince, a heldrake for hitting out any non terminator units, daemonettes for the terminators, and a squad of spawn which can either run, providing a distraction unit or can assault a small troops choice relying on its insane toughness. It can bog down wraithguard/lords/knights or riptide. This list is great to match up against low AP list, even your troops have inv saves, and can fair well against a spam of shots too (just not the daemonettes)

If you come against a monster mash list swap your reward for the nurgle sword which is AP2 Instant death at initiative 8. 

If you have the points/dont have daemon princes maybe a greater daemon of slaanesh could be good. They are very tough for their points especially if you roll 3+, Reroll inv, or 4+ FNP.
Hmm will think about it

 

Its Wednesday again

In the Horus Heresy Chaos Space marines yelled "screwed the rules"

In soviet russia (sorry 7th ed) the rules screw chaos space marines.

Its wednesday again!

Which means Im sitting at work after a late night of 40k hoping the boss doesnt catch me writing my blog. But enough about me, what about last nights game

Well last night was a 3000 pt a side new orks and chaos, vs Tau and Eldar (wait why did we agree to this again). Turns out the new ork codex was mostly just errata to bring the codex up to 7th edition, much like our friends the space marines. A few new models here and there, most units operate exactly the same and they got no game breaking monstrous creature, so I guess they wont be knocking tau and eldar off the top of the tournament lists.
Its is a pity though, as the codex has some nice options, cool models and rules too. But while we have wraithknights running around I dont forsee orks being any more than a casual army. But would be more than happy to be proven wrong, if not just to rub it into eldrads face.

Actually, I think wraithknights are the one thing locking out most codecies from the competitive play. They have no real weakness, they are tough, have great shooting, arent a slouch in close combat, are fast and mobile and not stupidly overcosted for their rules. 

A few units in the Chaos Daemons codex can deal with them (mostly FMC) Dark eldar laugh at them as their poison weapons ignore the high toughness, Chaos space marines have a cry, marines have a cry unless they are spamming grav weapons (but why wouldnt you), nob bikers with klaws can take it out but will take a lot of loses and even then, you need the warboss to secure the kill as your opponent will focus that unit if they know thats your plan.

I think the best thing to do is to attempt to ignore it and focus the rest of the army. If they are taking 2 wraithknights thats around 600 point of their army locked into 2 models which kill a squad a turn (even hammernators, its really rude) so if you have enough dudes, kill the remaining army (who are mostly squishy) and win objective secured.

Anyway list I played included 

2 x 20 daemonette squads with heralds

Keeper of secrets

2 x 5 man CSM squads in rhinos

5 Nurgle spawn

1 Sorcerer on bike

3 Nurgle obliterators

Overall the list performed alright. We were able to keep up with the orks and almost every unit still on the table was in combat on turn 3 at the latest. People still underestimate how scary a 20 man blob of daemonettes with the herald is. The only thing I have seen not die to a single turn of combat was the wraithknight and only because I had lost half the models before I was charged.

The main thing I would change is a slight drop of the daemonette numbers and maybe lose the rhinos. the CSM did crack a tank with its melta gun but with the amount of Ap2 weaponry running around these days they would have been better off as more oblits as they guarantee (almost) getting into melta range.

Hmmm, alternatively we could try what goatboy is a huge fan of and put a khorne herald in with khorne hounds. Would definitely be fast enough. Not really fluffy but would support the sorcerer in spawn quite nicely.

list would look something like this

Herald of Khorne  (Juggernaut, Lesser Gift)

Herald of Slaanesh (Locus, psy lvl 1)

Herald of Slaanesh (Locus, psy lvl 1)

Keeper of Secrets (Greater gift x2)

Daemonettes (x15, alluress)

Daemonettes (x15, alluress)

Flesh hounds (x12)

Chaos sorcerer (lvl3, bike, Sigil, force axe)

Nurgle spawn (x5)

Cultists (x10)

Cultists (x10)

---- 1500 points ---

You have 2 beast squads which are fairly solid and have instant death ap2 weapons hidden in them

The rocket forward possibly invisible / stealthed by the sorcerer/keeper.

The daemonettes run forward and should be not too far behind the beasts (6" move + D6 + 3" run, fleet)  really only 3" behind.

Meanwhile the KoS moves on up at its own pace ready to support any assault that looks hairy.

Cultists just backfield objective camp.

The lack of antivehicle is worrying, though most tanks can be caught and combatted really only the KoS can take down a landraider. Maybe I need to give the alluress a greater etherblade just so she can kill dreadnaughts too. Not sure will have to try.

Keep yourself updated!

No love for the love, I mean blood, god.

"Everyone thinks I'm angry, I'm just misunderstood."
-Kharn after rolling seven 1s to hit.

No love for the love, I mean blood, god.

Paid a visit to my FLGS (frienly local gaming store) to pick up a few more daemonettes to bulk up my army (I currently only have 20) only to find they had sold out.
In fact due to people going nuts over the daemonology summoning capabilities, people have started buying boxes of daemons which had spent months to years on the shelves.

Daemon models that remained
-Bloodletters (few boxes)

-Bloodcrushers (lots)

-Blood thirster

-Khorne chariot

-Slaanesh chariot

-Tzeentch chariot

-Flamers

-Plague drones.

So yeah lots of Khorne was left, which makes me sad because I personally think Khorne models look amazing, possibly even the best of the game, if only their rules didnt let them down.

I think their main problem, compared to the other gods, is that the dont do anything unique that the other gods dont do better.

Bloodletters are outclassed in combat by daemonettes in almost every single match-up and now are no longer any more resilient in either shooting or combat. 

The bloodthirster can not charge after flying, and with a poor shooting attack for a 250 point model, meaning he spends a turn hovering around waiting to be shot to pieces or outmaneuvered or even charged by a wraithknight. The single smash attacks hurts. Compared to a Lord of change, who loses a single attack but can be strength 8 (buy the staff) as well as have easy access to rerolls to hit etc.
To make matters worse for the giant red beastie deepstriking in (such as when summoned) starts you in swooping mode, which means 2 turns before you can charge.
Too many people have commented on the internet over bloodcrushers, any more would be redundant. For those unaware of how the best unit in the codex became one of the worst, read Toughness 4 and Instant death rules. Losing eternal warrior means losing your squad to a few missile launchers/multimeltas.

Im not surprised that the chariots are still there. Though the khorne cannon is nice, S8 AP5 Large Blast which gives people charging them assault grenades, but its a lot of points to do, what I feel, too little of an impact on the game. Yes it could make your bloodletters, if you ran them, strike at equal initiative with marines, or your daemonettes strike first, but chances are you would have been better utilising that heavy support choice for something else.
On another note, chariots still underperform, as their damage output/cost is too low and they lack any real staying power for the points cost either. Imagine being hit by a single missle launcher. Do you allocate to the transport and risk being bogged down (or worse) or risk it on the rider and be instant deathed.



Anyway TL;DR my local games store have sold out of most of the daemon models except Khorne ones.

Now for a list.

Im still looking at daemonettes with a locus herald, but last game 20 was too many. I might try 4x10 man squads instead. Will mean more heralds, but could work. 1500 points on the nose

1	Keeper of Secrets
	2x Greater rewards
2	Herald of slaanesh
	Exalted Locus
	Greater reward
	lesser reward
2	Herald of slaanesh
	Exalted Locus
	Greater reward
4	Daemonettes x 10
	Alluress
3	Soul grinder
	Baleful torrent
	Daemon of Slaanesh

Battleforged -  check

Fluffy - check

Fast - check

AP2 - check

Skyfire - check

Anti Armour 14 - check

The list can deal with anything not being spammed.
I guess you could swap some daemonettes for seekers, but I personally feel that despite the +3 points for 12" move and extra attack, I feel the loss factor you receive as they drop like flies (T3, 5++) the lack of objective secured, and the fact they cost 2x to buy, I would stick with the daemonettes.

Questions, comments? Feel free to ask